Curse

Angelica · Jul 22, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Pfft .... I don't care!

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jul 22, 2006, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Me and my guild will never be able to win those fun PVP prizes but do you see us complaining about it? And some of you are just ridiculous complaining about how PVE is getting gypped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by led-zep

same old anet, catering to pvp all the time and their tame pet gvg favourite Evil

I guess you're too busy complaining to realize the bulk of the game IS pve....so your statement of "catering to pvp all the time" just sounds whiney and ridiculous.

WasAGuest · Jul 22, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

It's about perception and the way the players see what is being added and adjusted.
As a PvEers I log in and find things that need adjusting, fixed, added, taken away. I find bugs report them, see scammers, bots and report them. I run out of content (all games do eventually) so I request more and in the forums I get:

Go play PvP. Go play AB. Or my favorite... go play WoW.

Gives cause for frustration since I don't like the GW PvP. Then, I head into Sanitarium and see the many threads with great ideas all over the place. Some are considered some are over the top. Either way, they sound great. So I /sign them in hopes of seeing new content and long lasting game play. After weeks and weeks of wandering around the PvE bored, and reading post after post about great ideas, I come in here and see "Fun!"; then I see it's about PvP. I then go to GW web site and see "Championship" ads. Now I'm ticked cause I see tons of ideas and all I see is PvP ads.

Then I log in and get to hear what guildies I have left complaining about their favorite character just got uber nerfed and they delete it and quit. I come to the forums again to see what was changed and find it was for PvP balance.

The perception is that PvP is catered too while PvE is sold too. That is why we see complaints and angry people... it's all about perception.

Side Note: PvE rescently gained yet another green item. Green items are not content, they are farm spots for the bored; and on that same note, Anet keeps nerfing popular farming builds to enforce group farming. This means that the players wanting one get to go farm the same spot over and over and over till they get the drop... how is that fun?

It's all about perception.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jul 22, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Sure, it's perception. But when people are crying "GW caters to PVP all the time!" it just makes me want to smack their idiotic head. At least 80% of the content is PVE, how could they even say that PVP is the only thing being catered to?

BigTru · Jul 22, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiin Maker

Well if people don't pvp, then they probally WOULD prefer nothing to having a 'fun pvp' which they wouldn't enjoy.

If they don't like PvP, then why the hell are they posting in this topic? It has nothing to do with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiin Maker

same old anet, catering to pvp all the time and their tame pet gvg favourite Evil.

[sarcasm]OMG THE LADDER RESET! ANET IS BIASED!!!! [/sarcasm]

Quote:

As a PvEers I log in and find things that need adjusting, fixed, added, taken away.

As a PvPer I log in and find things that need adjusting, fixed, added, taken away.

JR · Jul 22, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fates Monk

[sarcasm]Woohoo! More PvP stuff, can hardly wait![/sarcasm]

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Originally Posted by DOCB22

Wooo Hooo

I dont care!! Where is the PVE LOVE?

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Originally Posted by hinhtan

The PVErs get the nerf bat stick in order to bring the refresh and happiness for the PVPers imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by led-zep

same old anet, catering to pvp all the time and their tame pet gvg favourite Evil

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

bleh more 1337 PvP stuff.

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Originally Posted by Blackhawk

Yeah Whoopee

Hi, welcome to Guild Wars!

This game has two parts to it; PvE and PvP.

Now I understand that this may confuse and concern you, but inbetween new PvE items, armor, and entire campaigns being added, PvP also occasionally gets thrown a bone.

Please try to remain calm, the feeling of outrage will pass shortly.

Metanoia · Jul 22, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

As obnoxious as those "Go play PvP/WoW" comments are... they do make a point.

This game was built primarily for PvP. The game system was built to best accomidate it. It's also not a P2P game, meaning they have limited resources when it comes to updates. P2P MMORPGs tend to cater to PvE and have the funds to make the in-game worlds persistant and ever-changing. This helps prevent the game from stagnating. So, I guess you get what you pay for in that respect. Now, when people say "Go play WoW", what they really mean is "Maybe a P2P MMORPG would better accomidate your gaming-needs"?

To be fair, the "Go play PvP" comments do make a fair point, too. You're eating half of your lunch and asking for more. PvP is basically the true 'end-game' of Guild Wars. PvE is static, think of the chapters as Novels (however badly written). Complaining that you don't get new PvE content is a little short-sighted as that's the bulk of the content in the new chapters.

Why is PvE static? Because it's not dynamic. Why is PvE not dynamic? Because it's not a persistant in-game world. Why is it not a persistant in-game world? Because GWs isn't a MMORPG.

Dispite what people say, GW is no more of an MMORPG than Diablo II. When you compare the two, towns and outposts in GW act pretty much just like chat channels in Diablo II. They both lack one of the defining elements of a MMORPG, the persistant in-game world.

I'd just like to remind you that it's all part of the same game. Story Mode, which everyone should play at least once IMO, and PvP, the core* of the game. The whole PvE/PvP animosity is really quite pathetic.

*I mean that almost litterally. Since all the new chapters are selling 'Core' + 'Prophecies/Factions/Nightfall'. 'Core' basically being the game mechanics and the Battle Isles.

Okay, I'm going to shut up now.

Spook_Cell · Jul 22, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

True most of the content from new chapters is PvE content, content which IMO is more quantity than quality in Factions, anyways...

Most of the content may be PvE but you'd be hard pressed to tell that looking at gw.com, PvP brackets, PvP interviews, builds, a lot of the GotW are PvP, PvP prizes, PvP tournament, etc, etc.

Wow a couple new greens, it probably took less time to code that than it did to write the press release and come up with the prizes for this new fun PvP tournament.

ANet is playing a dangerous game by offering all PvE content whereas putting all their promo, prizes, player recognition and marketing on the PvP side. Both have a right to complain since both are being ignored in one area or the other.

Also PvEers have to pay for new content though if you PvP (mostly GvG with the case at hand) you don't have to pay anything to have access to the tournament and prizes.

Sure you got new skills but say you play a boon prot monk almost exclusively in GvG, I don't think 1 ch2 skill has really made it onto a basic skillbar for that build (yes yes Gift of Health but not everyone uses that). Seems odd that PvEers are paying for PvP prizes which they don't actually have access to.

The only real solution is to give PvP more content (not quite sure what PvP content is but I'm sure someone knows, guessing new game types) and ingame recognition and real world prizes to PvE.

However I don't see this happening anytime soon so the bickering, finger pointing and condescending attitute from both sides will continue.

Have a nice day.

And I also agree it's be nice if the guilds going to Germany don't have access to this, they already have thounsand dollar prizes, let someone else win a couple copies of GW and a shiny cape.

B Ephekt · Jul 22, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spook_Cell

Most of the content may be PvE but you'd be hard pressed to tell that looking at gw.com, PvP brackets, PvP interviews, builds, a lot of the GotW are PvP, PvP prizes, PvP tournament, etc, etc.

Um, maybe that's because pve isn't competative in any way. I guess you'd have Anet posting "ladders" of who finished X mission with Masters or something? Come on...

Quote:

ANet is playing a dangerous game by offering all PvE content whereas putting all their promo, prizes, player recognition and marketing on the PvP side. Both have a right to complain since both are being ignored in one area or the other.

Hardly, people just like complaining. LIke it or not pvp is the only thing competative about this game, which is why the ladders and tournaments don't involve who can farm the most griffons or solo UW the fastest.

Quote:

Also PvEers have to pay for new content though if you PvP (mostly GvG with the case at hand) you don't have to pay anything to have access to the tournament and prizes.

Sure you got new skills but say you play a boon prot monk almost exclusively in GvG, I don't think 1 ch2 skill has really made it onto a basic skillbar for that build (yes yes Gift of Health but not everyone uses that). Seems odd that PvEers are paying for PvP prizes which they don't actually have access to.

Blessed Light, for one. Pvpers almost have to buy the new chapters to be truly competative, it isn't such a requirement in pve if you enjoy the older content.

Quote:

The only real solution is to give PvP more content (not quite sure what PvP content is but I'm sure someone knows, guessing new game types) and ingame recognition and real world prizes to PvE.

Pve already has rewards for farming things; they're called titles. I'm sorry, but I just fail to see why pve players should receive recognition or cash/trip prizes for farming and questing - the amount of skill required to do either is almost nil.

BigTru · Jul 22, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spook_Cell

ANet is playing a dangerous game by offering all PvE content whereas putting all their promo, prizes, player recognition and marketing on the PvP side. Both have a right to complain since both are being ignored in one area or the other.

What do you want them to do? Give thousands of dollars to whoever farms the most brain-dead monsters fastest?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spook_Cell

Also PvEers have to pay for new content though if you PvP (mostly GvG with the case at hand) you don't have to pay anything to have access to the tournament and prizes.

PvPers have to pay for new skills to stay competitive. While you can skip PvE chapters and not miss much besides new armor/differant weapon skins, to stay on a competitive level, you'll most likely need every new chapter.

If you allienate PvPers who purchased the latest chapter and who didn't, the competition would only get worst.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spook_Cell

Sure you got new skills but say you play a boon prot monk almost exclusively in GvG, I don't think 1 ch2 skill has really made it onto a basic skillbar for that build (yes yes Gift of Health but not everyone uses that). Seems odd that PvEers are paying for PvP prizes which they don't actually have access to.

Did you miss the Healing Light build? Chapter 2 isn't meant to come along with skills that will overpower all other skills, they are balanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spook_Cell

The only real solution is to give PvP more content (not quite sure what PvP content is but I'm sure someone knows, guessing new game types) and ingame recognition and real world prizes to PvE.

Give recognition to who farms brain-dead monsters the fastest? Go to one of the competitive PvE missions and check the Record NPC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spook_Cell

However I don't see this happening anytime soon so the bickering, finger pointing and condescending attitute from both sides will continue.

Ok, so why don't you make a topic about PVP vs PVE instead of comming into a topic about the ladder reseting and wheeling the thread offtopic into a flame wars?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spook_Cell

And I also agree it's be nice if the guilds going to Germany don't have access to this, they already have thounsand dollar prizes, let someone else win a couple copies of GW and a shiny cape.

First off, if you're a PvEr and don't enjoy PvP, this has absolutely nothing to do with you. Second, that would be retarded. Like saying the Yankees can't compete because they've alread won before; Winning a world-wide tournament means nothing if you don't get to compete with the best-of-the-best.

You want Shiny capes? Come and take them, but they're not going to tone-down the competition just for whiner's sake.

Gaile Gray · Jul 22, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Hey, you guys bring up a good suggestion, but I don't know how it could work. I say it's a good suggestion because, well, I made it too.

I ask our organized play coordinator if there was some way that we could "share the love" and not award cape trims to those already getting such a large reward with the trip to Leipzig, assured cash of some amount, etc, etc. He felt that there really wasn't a way to divide this fun season or to separate out the tournament players. After all, the guilds going to Leipzig need to test and practice and hone their skills for the tough matches to come next month. Asking them to not participate in this fun season isn't fair. Asking them to decline a reward isn't appropriate. Making them ineligible is just unkind. So they're eligible and yes, some of them might win in this Fun Season. Interestingly, though, in the early days, only one of the Leipzig-bound guilds is on the Top 20, and that at 16.

In competition, those who win get the prizes. There isn't a fair and reasonable way to make it otherwise in this fun season, at least at short notice. I'm sure we'll give a good thought to future such competitions, and maybe there will be some alterations that are seen as the best possible solution in everyone's eyes.

Spook_Cell · Jul 22, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

Um, maybe that's because pve isn't competative in any way. I guess you'd have Anet posting "ladders" of who finished X mission with Masters or something? Come on...

That has nothing to do with the fact there's no mention of PvE on the official GW website. If they wanted to add PvE based content on the site they could but they choose not to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

Hardly, people just like complaining. LIke it or not pvp is the only thing competative about this game, which is why the ladders and tournaments don't involve who can farm the most griffons or solo UW the fastest.

Then I guess that all the previous comments of lack of PvP content and lack of PvE recognition are just whinners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

Blessed Light, for one. Pvpers almost have to buy the new chapters to be truly competative, it isn't such a requirement in pve if you enjoy the older content.

You have a point there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

Pve already has rewards for farming things; they're called titles. I'm sorry, but I just fail to see why pve players should receive recognition or cash/trip prizes for farming and questing - the amount of skill required to do either is almost nil.

I don't really consider titles a reward and PvP also has those titles. ANet could implement PvE content that would be worthy of prizes but they choose not to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Ok, so why don't you make a topic about PVP vs PVE instead of comming into a topic about the ladder reseting and wheeling the thread offtopic into a flame wars?

My topic was anything but an incentive to flame, yours isn't so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

First off, if you're a PvEr and don't enjoy PvP, this has absolutely nothing to do with you.

Don't assume my background in Guild Wars. And as JR stated this is a PvE AND PvP game, inevetably whatever happens in one will affect the other

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Second, that would be retarded. Like saying the Yankees can't compete because they've alread won before; Winning a world-wide tournament means nothing if you don't get to compete with the best-of-the-best.

You want Shiny capes? Come and take them, but they're not going to tone-down the competition just for whiner's sake.

In the last BWE the top 5 guilds on the ladder were to be allowed to make a premade, due to whining the rules were changed so only 2 alpha guilds could win so it has been done in the past. And during the BWEs often Korean guilds were not eligible to win certain contests due to whatever obscure ruling by someone.

serenitys flame · Jul 22, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liu

Sad that everyone else will sit down and let them take it.

Let's face it, everyone else just uses builds that these guilds come up with. Instead of being a rich PvP experience, everyone just ends up copying each other these days. Right down to the skillbar.

So instead of being epic 'Guild Wars' (I get extra points for using the name of the game here) It's just the same few guilds dominating the top. We all know who they are, they've been doing it for AGES now.

Go do something about it, THINK up new builds. In a worldwide game such as this, you're going to have to put in effort if you really want to be good. You have to be smart, strategic, unique.

What's that you say? "How can I just go and compete with a guild like Last Pride?! Are you nuts?!"

The truth is though, they're only human, and we've all got the same skills to use...

Also this kinda belonged in a thread of its own. Didn't plan for it to be this long...

EDIT -- Also, What ARE you moaning about? A Fun PvP season is still something. What, would you rather nothing at all? Some people...

A good idea, but think about it. Somebody comes up with some ok build. Who cares? I'm not trying to be negative but the truth is that is some unranked idiot comes up with a build, two things will happen.

Number One: He will be criticized for trying a new build with an unranked group.

Number Two: He will get anyone who joins and they will be flawlessly killed by the zaishen.

Message to Gaile Gray: Why did you take away the Tomb of the Primeval Kings? That was the true Hall of Heroes.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jul 22, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spook_Cell

ANet could implement PvE content that would be worthy of prizes but they choose not to.

Dont mistake me as a strictly PvP guy because I play PvE as much as PvP, but how exactly would ANET implement prizes for PvE as a competitive reward? I say competitive because that's what the PvP prizes are.

And PvE has plenty of "prizes" (FoW armor, 15k armor, weapon skins, pet skins, miscellaneous festivals, etc etc) ...not all of them are necessarily restricted to PvE only but please dont say that PvE doesnt get rewards or prizes.

Spook_Cell · Jul 22, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Dont mistake me as a strictly PvP guy because I play PvE as much as PvP, but how exactly would ANET implement prizes for PvE as a competitive reward? I say competitive because that's what the PvP prizes are.

And PvE has plenty of "prizes" (FoW armor, 15k armor, weapon skins, pet skins, miscellaneous festivals, etc etc) ...not all of them are necessarily restricted to PvE only but please dont say that PvE doesnt get rewards or prizes.

In game items are not the prizes I am refering to, when I say prizes I mean t-shirts, money, GW games, pins, etc. Real in world tangible stuff, not bytes of info on a server somewhere.

As for how to implement it, the challenge missions are a step in the right direction but need to be expanded.

Some ppl have suggested a catacombs type maze where each lvl you go down you go against stronger and stronger monsters. Make it so there is no actual end to the lvls and say every season whoever made it the furthest or did some task the best would win whatever prize there was for that season.

Elite missions were supposed to be near impossible to finish yet now we have ppl 3-maning Urgotz so obviously proper testing would be needed so there is no trick build that can breeze through everything and often all that is required for that is the right mix of mobs with diverse skillsets.

I understand that people are sceptical of giving prizes to people who PvE yet just because that is how it is now doesn't mean that's how it must always be. GW has changed a lot since it first came out and it will continue to change as time goes on.

However I don't understand why everyone is so close-minded that they can't accept that it could be doable it only ANet put in the effort to make it so.

PvP doesn't need any outside input to make it challenging and require skill, yet PvE does and if only ANet would put the time in to make it so there could be endgame content that would be a challenge for anyone who tried it, nothing like the UW, FoW and elite missions we have right now.

And IMO it would make GW overall a better game than it is right now.

lyra_song · Jul 22, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by serenitys flame

Message to Gaile Gray: Why did you take away the Tomb of the Primeval Kings? That was the true Hall of Heroes.

In order to make pvp chars universally compatible with future expansion, they seperated all the PvP areas into one small map.

Tomb of the Primeval Kings is isolated in the middle of the desert.

Team Arena was at Droknars.

Random Arena was at Lion's Arch.

Guild Hall was in the middle of the water somewhere.

Dont you remember how much of a bother it was to jump from one spot to the other? If there was no battle isle, how would faction players access it?

The Battle Isles is a brilliant idea. Its accessible from every new upcoming chapter and doesnt force you to scroll around just to go from one to the other.

While im sad to see the Tombs go, you have to admit, battling in a volcano is COOL

Quozz · Jul 22, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Actually I could care less about cash prizes or gold trimmed capes. The thing that really irked me is the skill pins. Those are neat collectible items that ANY Guild Wars player would like to have. However, the only ones who can "win" them are the PVP elite. Is there any real way for PVE players to "earn" them? Probably not, but I would love to see a random drawing for all GW players who have a character that completed Factions to have a shot at a set of pins.

B Ephekt · Jul 22, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spook_Cell

That has nothing to do with the fact there's no mention of PvE on the official GW website. If they wanted to add PvE based content on the site they could but they choose not to.

What? Have you bothered to actually read the website? The Scribe has info about pve stuff and there are regular pve events like the Dragon Festival. It's just that there isn't much to talk about when it comes to pve... I mean, really, what would you like to see? "Today yet another player finished Vizunah Square with a Masters Reward!" Come on, nobody cares about that stuff except that player.

Quote:

Then I guess that all the previous comments of lack of PvP content and lack of PvE recognition are just whinners.

Some gripes regarding lack of content have merit, but the lack of pve recognition is just silly in my opinion. There just isn't much to say... I do think both pve and pvp could use some more content (aside from another commercial expansion) but that's not really the issue here, is it?

Quote:

I don't really consider titles a reward and PvP also has those titles. ANet could implement PvE content that would be worthy of prizes but they choose not to.

Your interpretation of titles is inconsequential to this issue; titles are there as rewards for pve accomplishments. Period.

Quote:

PvP doesn't need any outside input to make it challenging and require skill, yet PvE does and if only ANet would put the time in to make it so there could be endgame content that would be a challenge for anyone who tried it, nothing like the UW, FoW and elite missions we have right now.

Without implementing large-scale raids or variable difficulty settings and random enemie classes and skills, pve will never be as challenging as what you're describing. Random enemies and skills would be a start, but the fact is, pve requires almost no skill in its current state and therfore doesn't deserve any rewards system. The pvp rewards you seem to be comparing this against are only obtainted by the best players and guilds in the game.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jul 22, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I think a lot of you missing some of the reasons for giving prizes to PVP: It's a promotional and marketing gimmick. That's why they have these competitions with crowds and cheerleaders in different countries. It's sort of a "sports" event. It garners some sponsors who pay for the prizes.

Competitive PvE just isnt as exciting to watch and won't draw sponsors and the hooplah that Player vs. Player competition does.

Dont get me wrong, Im not opposed to the idea, but I'm just pointing out the reasons why one aspect of the game has prizes while the other doesnt.

yesitsrob · Jul 22, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

I can't believe this! more pvp stuff!

First they nerf aoe, so obviously, I deleted all my eles because they sucked now! then they make my 10/10 sundering mods not perfect anymore, so I just had to delete my warrior!

Damn pvp ruining everything!

and EViL get's all the coverage while my guild, Droknar's Death Lords of Kryta gets nothing! what the hell!

And after this unacceptable attrocity i think i best uninstall the game and quit gw forever, k